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Podcast: The Michigan Insider Episode: Wolverine247 spring football takeaways, what we learned about Michigan's offense Transcript: Hello everybody. Welcome to the Wolverine 24-7 Podcast, your audio source for all things Michigan football, basketball, and recruiting. I'm your host, Zach Shaw. Steve Lorenz is here with me. This is the first. We'll probably be a couple post spring podcasts, obviously. Eventually in the later in the summer we'll start previewing the season and really sorting through the weeds of it. But Michigan did 15 spring practices, including one that we got to see. Obviously we're talking to people behind the scenes. Kyle Whittingham and some players were available throughout the spring. The format that we're going to follow is things that we learned this spring at each position group and things we still want to know. And some groups, there's actually quite a bit that we still want to know. And some groups are returning enough players that might not have learned a ton this spring, but that doesn't necessarily mean good or bad for the position group. Things are kind of established at some spots. But regardless, I'll be doing a written series of this where I'll go a little bit more in depth over at the Michiganinsider.com. Michigan at 24 seven supports.com. We have tons of post spring content, obviously keeping an eye on the basketball roster situation as well. And then recruiting is starting to heat up under this new staff. So be sure to check all of that out. But Steve, we haven't done a podcast since the spring game. And we were kind of joking about it during the spring game. But obviously a lot of eyes on the quarterback position. So we'll start there. Things we learned this spring at quarterback. Steve, I'll let you go first. What's something that you learned at the quarterback position from Michigan this spring? I mean, I think we did learn that Tommy Carr does have a peers that have a bright future at Michigan, right? I mean, not going to devolve into the stupidity as far as the narratives that came out of the spring game. Three of nine. It's just you. I mean, you to be fair, you I remember you tweeted off. I even called you. They called it rage bait when you tweeted out the stats. I only tweeted out the stats. I know, I know, but I was still I still cracked up what I saw at some like, I can already imagine the replies on the cesspool that is X to it. But but no, just taking getting to see it live and stuff is like, I think Tommy Carr looks, I mean, I guess the way I would put it looks like a complete steal in that 2026 recruiting class already. You know, and I think that's encouraging for the future of the quarterback room. It'll be interesting to see the actual packing order once the kid from Colorado state. Yeah, Brad's in the field, right? Cause he's had a ton of experience. He's played good football in the past. You wonder if Michigan would prefer to let. Car kind of marinate a little bit or if he'll do enough to maybe win that QB to job over the long haul of the season, right? But either way, I think my biggest takeaway was that he looks like a steal. Other thing to I don't know if we talked about this before. You know, it was like they flipped him from Miami of Ohio. I think he's been quoted multiple times and saying like Michigan was the only offer he was going to get that he would have ever considered flipping because Miami, Ohio, believe in him early, they recruited him really hard. He had a lot of and I don't I still don't even know who exactly, but he had a ton of unreported offers like that after he committed to Miami of Ohio, he didn't go on Twitter and report some offers. And I'm assuming that he had some really good ones somewhere in there. So it wasn't as simple as Michigan flipping a Mac commit. I think he had better offers that came in. But either way, Michigan pivoting there late, I think was a good, a very smart move, probably somebody they should have offered earlier in the process. But either way, I mean, he's in an hour of an hour now. So kind of irrelevant. But you know, feels like Michigan is getting a good one there. Once he develops a little bit more physically, you know, I think he has a lot of tools and the other thing to ironically, maybe, but he's also a good fit for what Jason backlights do offensively. This isn't a square peg into a round hole type situation. Like he actually fits the offense really well. So, you know, kind of a win-win there for both car himself and for winning him and staff to find not only a young guy who looks really good, but he fits exactly what they like to do offensively. So yeah, hard not to for that to kind of, you know, just because we got to see him for so long out there also, you know, kind of hard for him, him not to be the major takeaway, right? I mean, he looked very solid. Yeah, I think where, you know, we sometimes we talk about like what things we trust and don't trust in off season hype. And I think that he's checking multiple boxes because he was mentioned before spring practice, during spring practice. And then after we actually got to see it with our own eyes in the final spring practice. So to me that that carries more weight than oh, this guy's looking really good. And then we don't really see them in the spring game or something like that. You know, this there was a little bit of weight and we saw, you know, good touch a lot more acceleration than I thought he had, you know, and and he was reading the field really well. And to your point about the recruiting side of it, I'm sure we've already discussed it at some point, but he rose several hundred spots in the composite rankings throughout his senior year. I mean, he had a he had a good year and your year. He was definitely an FBS, you know, scholarship quarterback. But I think his senior year. You know how this goes. He's especially a quarterback because quarterbacks often commit so early. And so recruiting analysts are often looking at maybe the next year's class or the uncommitted guys. But you know, you look at his stats and how he improved as a senior and then also his film. He just he looked like maybe a quarterback who if he if that had been his junior year. He'd probably be a top 100 guy doing the being courted by everybody in the country. I don't know. I'm not an analyst. I can't say that for certain. Oh, I think I think he was evident. Yes. I think you're on the right. I think you're totally on the right path. I totally agree. I mean, there's this is one of the things we talked about, which if you consider the current context, you know, back when when Tommy was like a freshman, I want to say. Maybe even like going into sophomore year. A lot of people in that area felt like he was actually the more talented of the two versus his brother CJ who now looks like he's going to be at least a three year starter at Notre Dame. I mean, right? He had a great freshman year at Notre Dame, like walked in, won the job and looked really, really good. Like, I think Notre Dame's got to be happy with that one. So, so no, I think you're total. I think you're spot on. I think he would have been, you know, much more highly regarded from the rankings and ratings standpoint. If he had, if everything had played out that way. So, biggest thing, like I said, is there's, there were, I think there were a lot of, I think he did have a lot of power for like FBS offers. I'd love to ask and find out who exactly offered him. But the other thing, like you mentioned, also was a late riser, which been doing this long enough to know that a lot of times late risers usually means that usually means like that's a good, that's a great thing for the future. And they didn't rise enough, I think is what I'm going to say. Yeah, yep, yep. And that's usually one of the, it's like when there's a late pivot like that and a guy takes a late run at, but if they're like a mid-level high-level three star and they get into that 90, 91 range. Yeah, we always kind of said probably means he's like closer to a 92, 93. Ironically, the other legacy that Michigan took late, Tommy Frauman, offensive lineman, also took a huge leap. At the end of the process. So, you know, couple like late pivots to some legacy prospects that really look like they should pay off eventually. But, but Tommy, yeah, the future looks really bright there for sure. Yeah. Yeah, regarding Tommy, we definitely learned that he is going to be a factor and that he made a really strong first impression. I think what we still want to know is how much of that was by default because Colin Russell ended up not, we transferred out Brady's and Jill was injured, I believe, for almost all of spring, if not all of it. And then Braden Fowler and Ecolecie did not end up enrolling for the winter semester, he'll enroll in the spring or summer, essentially. And so Tommy got a lot of reps. He was going to get a lot of reps either way. So good, good on him for making a strong first impression. I think he did a lot of things well. I think the next step is, yeah, does that mean he's the number two? Does that mean that he's mixing into semi meaningful parts of games? Or did he just leave a really strong first impression that will factor into future seasons down the line regarding Bryce Underwood before we move on to other position groups? I have what I wrote down for what we learned is I do think this coaching staff understands the importance of developing Bryce Underwood. And that's not like tiptoeing speak. They're just, they're adding, you know, I think, um, Coideat, Merjour, I think, you know, he seems like a little bit more established if a coach Jason Beck has coached quarterbacks for a long time. And I feel like the tone discussing Bryce Underwood, I mean, obviously they're very high in his work ethic. They're saying a lot of nice things. But I think there's also a sense of he has to get better and not, not or else, but, you know, just for Michigan to be successful this fall. There's a sense within the staff. They really like his work ethic. And now it's just time to put in that work. I mean, this is probably, you know, the freshman starter thrown into a. A difficult situation, you know, from a who's coaching him, from who's catching the passes, from the general success of the offense as a true freshman, young true freshman quarterback. There's a lot of things you can bring up as to why his stats were the way they were. But I think Michigan, I like the tone that they're taking where they really like what he's done. They like his work ethic. They like his leadership. He was a spring captain. But I think Kyle Wittingham, every time he says those things, he also says, but he has to get better. He knows it. We know it. We have to put the work in. So I guess like where I'm going with that is it does seem like there's an understanding that his development is not going to be automatic. It's going to be. Efforted. Something that they work on. Something that that is developed. So I actually like the tone that they've taken on that. I mean, you know, obviously we don't know is what, what, how far can he develop? How close to his ceiling, his potential, which is. As high as any quarterback in the country. How close can he get to that this season? Or as a young player who was kind of, I don't know how much he grew throughout the course of last season. He learned a lot. But I don't know if his game necessarily developed. How much can they kind of catch him up to speed in terms of being a playoff caliber championship, contending quarterback? So that's what we don't know. How about you regarding the Bryce Underwood side of it? What, what did you learn this spring and what do you still not know? Yeah, we, I mean, learn that the, that I agreed completely about the approach that the staff is taking publicly. I guess, okay, to defend the post spring game pitchfork crowd. I think part of it, the part of the situation is that I don't think we're used to a staff talking so bluntly. You know, about sure, if they're starting quarterback, you know, it's totally different than kind of what we're used to. Well, in Bryce was a true freshman last year with the five star, like, like, I think true freshmen are always coaches. The old regime, I should say kind of tip code around true freshmen and five star types because they don't want them to get. Take something the wrong way or get discouraged or transfer. And so it was always going to be a little bit more serious of a discussion anyways, but you're totally right. I think this coaching staff, you know, they'll say nice things, but they're not only going to say nice things. Yeah. And again, like, if you were expecting the head coach to come out and say, yeah, we're completely satisfied with his development so far and we feel good about, you know, that's not what you're going to hear. That'd be, you know, that's right. That's the other thing. It's like, if you expected anything else and you're, and you're using that as some way to turn this into like a possible quarterback battle or anything like you're just sorely mistaken. Like, and that's part of the part of the thing. Like you said, Zach, because his ceiling is so high. I think this staff knows that there's a lot more there and that it's, and that it's time to take that next step. And like you said, it's going to be from actually putting in the work. So, which he appears to be more than willing to do. I don't think that's ever been an issue. I mean, to be fair, even last year, I mean, they talk about, you know, he kind of was one of those like last guy or first guy there. Last guy out. It's going to say last guy there. First guy out. Yeah, you know, exactly what you want. But. So, yeah, no, the kid gloves have been removed. I'm assuming both on the practice field in the film room and publicly kind of, which I think is a good thing for both parties. I think it's probably the way they're going to get the most out of underwood this year. So, what do I want to know? I don't know. I just kind of will see it in August. I mean, there's really not much, you know, there's not much else you can say with E want to know. It's like, well, I want to see what he's like when he has the actual starting five offensive line in front of them. And they're actually running like real offensive sets. That's what I want to know. The real other opponent on the other side. Yeah. So, like, that's, I guess if you're asking what I want to know, that that probably be about it right there with, with Bryce specifically. Yeah. Yeah. I think the only other thing that really jumps out is, you know, there was plenty of discussion about him running the ball more with Jason Beck system. You can watch some of his offenses over the years. There's definitely more, in my opinion, more place to be made outside of the pocket or on the move. And then his mobility should be an asset, you know, and honestly, same with Tommy Carr, not to the extent. But yeah, I mean, that should be something that Michigan, that should be something that Michigan's opponents get really annoyed by is how they can do everything right. And Bryce, I know, we can still pick up 12 yards on a run. You know, that that should be part of Michigan's offenses is that annoyance level of the fact that they can't actually really stop the mobility every time. So that would be another thing is, you know, I wasn't expecting to know by the end of spring what that means. But, you know, thinking about the summer, some other questions for the room is, yeah, how. How do they utilize that both when he is running, obviously, but also when he's throwing and throwing, you know, keeping defenders guessing a little bit moving to running back. And honestly, the rest of the position groups, there's a little less to learn and know and discuss. But in terms of what we learned, I mean, not surprised by this because we knew how good he was as a recruit. But yeah, Savion Hider, this is, I think he's starting to creep up to the most hyped freshman that I can remember. I'd have to sit down and maybe look back at the archives. But this is, you know, freshman always get a lot of praise. But this is getting to the point where it's unanimous, universal. You know, you got players at all sorts of different positions. You know, like just heaping praise on this guy and, you know, hard to disagree looking at his high school tape, but, you know, five star guy, he both's up to 220, allegedly. I mean, I talked to him in person. I didn't, I was a little surprised he said 220, but he definitely looked up. He's building, he's preparing himself for Big Ten play. So I think we learned whether we expected it before in spring or not, we learned with more certainty. He is going to be one of the biggest impact freshmen in the country this fall, even with the Jordan Marshall returning and all that they want to do with his game. Yeah, Savion Hider checks every box. And they're very pleased with his pass pro in addition. I mean, that's always a good sign is, you know, yes. Super athletic star running back comes to college. Almost all of them have to learn pass pro, but to already be taking that leap. Yeah, he kind of, he kind of reminds me demeanor wise a little bit of Blake Corum in the sense where he, he's obviously very confident in his game and what he has big goals, but he also understands the work ethic that needs to go into that and the, I guess the culture buy in that he needs to provide. So yeah, Jordan Marshall is kind of the same way, but I think just learning a little bit more about the impact that he can make. That was, that was probably my biggest takeaway from the running back room. How about you? Yeah, I mean, it's hard not to talk about Hider. I think the other thing too is in that type of setting, I think running back is actually one of the spots where you can learn a little bit about a player, you know, and he started to flash some of the stuff that we talked about. He's got amazing balance for a kid his size. He's not afraid to initiate contact. He just looks like a yak machine already. I like the biggest thing for me was wondering is like, I kind of want to see what that breakaway speed looks like one seed is in position to take one all the way, right? I mean, you don't really get a chance to watch that type of stuff. Other thing for me though is actually the other freshman running back. Like I thought Jonathan Brown looked like he belonged as well. Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, protein shakes will be his friend. I think it was summer, but I, yeah, I mean, his, the way he was able to get as low as he was for his height, that's going to be a problem for opposing defenders at some point. Totally agree. Like that was, he was a guy, like I said, in a setting like this where you can only learn so much, you know, like I said, I think back is one spot where you can kind of take it to have some takeaways. And he definitely, you know, passed the first test in my mind, you know, is like, okay, like they're, they're not going to need him this year. There's unless barring some injury maybe, but which I guess I've already had with Campana, but, you know, should be Marshall Hider-Cuzzel. But definitely looks like a guy who should see some carries at some point in his Michigan career. Right. So he's talked about, I think I've seen it. He's kind of taken on the, the Hassan Haskins. Sure thing about being like very under recruited and being a bit, a little bit of a bigger back. I agree. He's definitely got to bulk up some more, which he will. But yeah, for a first, for a first time getting to watch him was like, okay, like I can see what Tony Alfred was looking at when they recruited him, you know, and he's a Columbus kid. So he's going to come in there with a chip on his shoulder, you know, being overlooked by Ohio State and stuff like that, which doesn't hurt. I don't think it's like, I don't think it'd be the main driver behind a successful career, but it can't, it can't hurt to kind of keep that chip on your shoulder. So yeah, he was one that, yeah, like I said, was kind of a standout for me, along with Hider obviously, like I said, I mean, it's hard. It's hard to quiet that hype train down at this point just because now that we've seen it, I mean, he was it a linebacker? One of the linebackers or edges, I think he just blew. He took him for a ride for about four or five yards, gained a lot of yards after contact and was like, dude, this guy's like, he's just got it. He's got that special combination of everything. So, yeah, those were probably the two biggest things for me, the freshmen again. Yeah, yeah, I think not a ton. I still want to know about the room. I feel like Jordan Marshall and and Savion Hider, you could just jump right in and feel pretty good comparing that running back room to any in the country. I guess the depth is the eternal question. You know, Bryson Kudzel had had some moments last year, but I think he would even say, you know, he wants to be a little bit more successful after contact. He doesn't want to go down as easily as he did at times last year. And with Kipana's injury, then you have some young guys, some guys who haven't played a ton. So, yeah, there is kind of that mix of, and then also, I mean, Tony Alfred has not always gone deep with his running back rotation. He is, I mean, Jordan Marshall barely saw the field as a true freshman just because they had their two guys. So, yeah, I think what that depth will look like is probably the one thing, but even that, it's not like a, oh, they haven't answered this question. It's just more of a, we don't really know yet exactly what this is going to look like, how it's going to shake out. We have guesses, but yes, wondering what it might be when they're playing, I don't know, at Rutgers in the November of the season, and they don't necessarily want to give Marshall and Hider up a Gillian carries. That will be something to keep an eye on because I think most teams would end up using their third and maybe fourth running back. Most teams that run as much as Michigan does end up rolling a little bit deeper than one and two. And now on the other side, we'll discuss wide receivers, tight ends and the offensive line and what we, what we learn and what we still want to know. This is the Wolverine 24 seven podcast. Spring always feels like a reset, but if your health routine involves multiple supplements, messy powders and oversized pills, it's not exactly sustainable. That's where grins makes it easy. It's a daily snack pack of gummies that simplifies your routine covering vitamins, minerals, greens and prebiotics in one easy grab and go step and it actually tastes good. It includes six grams of prebiotic fiber and the ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications. Get up to 52% off with code podcast at greens.co. That's G-R-U-N-S.co. All right. And we're back. So switching over to wide receiver, I feel like if there was one position group that the stock is up after the off season and then the spring, I feel like it is wide receiver. This is a position group. I feel quite a bit more confident in this room than I did a year ago, nine months ago, six months ago. You know, I think Andrew Marsh, obviously freshman all American, he's back for another year. There was a lot of buzz about him. JJ Buchanan, he probably was close to a freshman all American. If they had thrown him the ball more, I feel like, I mean, his efficiency was great. He was making big plays. He clearly became a downfield threat. Switch positions mid-season, not that that was a huge change in his role, but yeah, he had a great season at Utah, basically a top five freshman wide out in most statistical categories. He has come in, you know, added some height, added an outside downfield threat. And then Celeste Moa, I think, you know, we talked about Tommy Carr and Savion Hijter getting a lot of buzz in the spring. I would argue Celeste Moa was in that group as well. And, you know, we saw a little bit of a spring game. And he looks like, to me, I kind of, I, I, putting the death chart together post spring, I've got him as one of the big three. And I think it's, I think there's a maybe some concern that, you know, there isn't, that there might be a gap there between, especially between Buchanan and Marsh and everybody else. But, but Moa tempted to say he's, he's made that leap. I'm hesitant just because freshman wide receivers, you don't always know what you're going to get in games, but he's made a nice impression himself. So yeah, I think, I think in terms of what I learned, I think they've got three regular, get every down playmaker type wide receivers. I think the, what I still want to know is there's a, there's 15 scholarship wide receivers. How many of the rest of the guys can actually emerge to a point where we're, where they're, they're counting on them, not just against UTEP or, you know, central Michigan type teams, but against the Oklahoma's, against the Indiana's, the Penn State's, the Iowa's, the games they have to win to make the playoff. You know, how many, how, how far does this wide receiver room go? It's probably the biggest thing I still want to know throughout the off season in summer. How about you? Yeah, I mean, obviously the talent level in the room has been flipped. Marsh will be the number one guy, couple solid, really good freshman in Moan. I think Travis Johnson, I think Johnson looks a little bit further away. He's a little bit skinnier than I realized he was. Yeah, although he was out there. They're saying he's the fastest guy on the team. And that's going to get you on the field a little bit at least. You could tell the way they used them too, when they did use them. You know, I think they kind of gave him the McDoom. Yes. And around like type deal or whatever. You know, so, so yeah, there's, though there's tools there. Don't get me wrong. I'm not like he was great, a great poll for Ron last cycle. But anyway, yeah, the talent, like if you took the the room one through four this year compared to last year, you kind of wonder like where is Donovan McCulloughley in the pecking order right now? If it was if you know the two rooms were combined, he probably three maybe, which is, it certainly said something to me that Kyle Whittingham before practices started was asked about the wide receiver room. And he was kind of like, we have a we have a great top four and Marsh was the only one that was on the team last year. Right. Like that's, you know, which compliment to what this room can be this year's room could be, but certainly says something about the dearth that they were not the dearth. But the, I guess the the lack of proven established talent that they were working with heading into this off season. Yeah, I don't think dearth, I think dearth was in the ballpark there. But biggest thing for me though was like, I kind of feel like, you know, especially you talk about you had French to the mix there. Like, yeah, this looks, this looks like a group of guys that they should it looks like they might be able to. We might see some guys make some big plays after the catch. You know, it's like it's not going to be a completion down, you know, every time. And not just plays after the catch because it was a screen pass, like actual right like guys that yes, guys that can just get to that second level. And yeah, makes them make some one on one plays. You know, I think that was a big thing. Last year that we really didn't see very much of at all. I mean, even in not in again, an intermarsh number one receiver, you should have a great year this year. You know, most of his big plays were downfield type plays. You know, I think it got to the point where he was being focused on so much, it really wasn't much of an opportunity for him to make like some of those, turn some of those intermediate routes into like bigger plays. You know, but I feel like that we're going to see a little bit more that this year just because yeah, that talent level just looks better. And it did look like, like I look at Moa and French as two guys that really look like they kind of flashed a little bit as far as guys that might be able to do stuff like might be able to make those types of plays. So that was probably, I was I just seeing more talent that was probably the biggest thing for me was that, you know, we might have some shifts, a little bit of shift, a little bit of wiggle in this room this year. And that could lead to some more big plays that don't require Michigan just chucking the ball down the field and hoping they catch it. And even if you want proof other than just this is what we saw and what we've heard, the recruiting caliber of this receiver room is higher than it was a couple years ago. And you know, obviously French former top 50 recruit didn't have an impact as a freshman at Texas, but that was also a pretty crowded wide receiver room full of transfers and guys who were kind of added to help them win right in the moment. And then Moa, you know, he was a five star guy, obviously he was evaluated as a guy who could also play on the defensive side of things, but his athleticism very high. And then you'll be cannon his athleticism for his size. And then March, I mean, he was maybe under recruited or underrated, but he was still a top 150 guys. So yeah, there's, I mean, this isn't just, Hey, these guys are the top guys. There is some recruiting proof to it too, where the athleticism and the ceiling is there as well, and not just that they can make plays right now. So definitely agree on that front. And as I said, a moment ago, this is the position group where the stock is probably pointing the arrows pointing the most up since the first week of January. I think this is a room that I don't know what it looks like, or I don't know, you know, where it ranks in the Big 10 or anything like that. But it certainly ranks higher than it did last season at this time. Switching over to tight end, we were talking before we hit record, you know, they didn't make position coaches available during spring practice. I'm guessing that's a winning ham decision, which is fine. But but I do, I do think tight end is one position where like, you know, you only get so many questions that you can ask winning ham. Not too often are you asking about the tight end hierarchy. This isn't a position group that was a lot publicly known about the tight end room. I think in the spring game, I think we saw everybody. You know, Hogan Hanson, or Zach Marshall didn't play, excuse me, but Hogan Hanson returned. He talked about how he's been healthy this spring and really enjoying it. Deacon Tony Elley made a play. Eli Owens was the leading receiver in the game, if I'm not mistaken. You saw Jalen Hoffman get in there. So, you're kind of seeing the hierarchy. I guess what I learned is that Eli Owens is going to keep trying to carve out his role. Obviously, we don't know how tight ends are going to be used. That's something we still want to know in this new offensive system. Utah has shown, or Utah did show, that they will utilize and prioritize the tight end if the player is able to make plays. But will we see as many two tight ends and an H-back type sets? That still remains to be determined. But I liked what I saw with the Eli Owens game. I thought he was tracking the ball well. I thought he was making some plays after the catch. I guess I just learned that there's some depth here. Hogan Hanson and Zach Marshall probably are the two that will get the most buzz before the season. But Deacon Tony Elley, Eli Owens, Jalen Hoffman are all guys who, I think if Michigan put them out on the field, say 2nd and 7 against Oklahoma, I wouldn't be like, what are they doing? I think there's enough depth in guys that they can trust that this is a room that might not rotate, but they could rotate if they chose to do so. How about you, Steve? What did you learn about the tight ends this spring and what do you still want to know? We didn't learn much, but I would say it kind of feels like five of the six guys on the roster right now will probably see the field in some capacity, one's Marshall, one's Zach Marshall is healthy. This is where recruiting, this is where the coaching change kind of hurts because I feel like Matt Ludwig, the freshman, I believe, is at Texas Tech now out of Montana. I think he could have been a year one guy for Michigan regardless of who else is in the room. I think he has a chance to be special, because they only have, they have Mason Bonner coming in in the summer. He's a high ceiling guy, but I don't see him as a year one type player and he's got to bulk up quite a bit if he wants to make an impact at tight end. But I do think the other five guys that you're talking Tony Ellie, Hanson, Marshall, Owens, and then Jalen Hoffman too, I kind of feel like all five of those guys are going to see the field. At a variety of points with Hanson and Tony Ellie, obviously being, you would assume the primary receiving threats at the position. I'm interested to see what a healthy Hogan Hanson looks like. He looked like a guy with a, I mean, he was what they're leading receiver in the bowl game against Bama. Wasn't he the second one, the Citrus, the reigning, whatever. He was up there. I know he meant he had a very good freshman year. Yeah, we don't need to get too specific. I guess I just remember him kind of sticking out against Alabama a little bit, making a couple big plays. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it is. It's definitely of any position on the roster. It's the biggest mystery, but at the same time when you only have a certain amount of guys, you also already kind of know, okay, well Tony Ellie got a lot of experience last year. Hanson played a ton as a true freshman. Hoffman and Owens, you know, we'll see how Michigan likes to utilize that more HVAC style player. I do think they'll, I do think we'll still see some running sets, some sets where they want to run the ball where those guys are going to be in there. I don't think we're not going to see them at all. You know, but yeah, maybe just the disbursement and utilization, I guess, between the between the five healthy or the four healthy guys. You know, currently available right now will be will be kind of interesting. Yeah, I think so because I mean, I think we're kind of tip-tongue around it. We don't know if they're going to use tight ends as much as Sharon Moore, a former tight ends coach and Jim Harbaugh are going to, but they'll certainly use them. And again, the depth is something that will help them, especially with some versatility, you know, just being able to throw guys in different spots on the field too, in addition to playing different guys. So yeah, fast, I hope at some point we do get to talk to a tight ends coach because that would be, that would be where maybe we get the low down on what they think of this, of this room. Finally, we'll switch over to offensive line, another position where I think a position coach is probably going to elaborate on things a little bit more than Kyle Whittingham, but you're talking to people behind the scenes. I think the biggest sentiment is this, they want this offensive line to get bigger, which I didn't feel like they were small last year, but I think the strength and conditioning program, they want to out muscle people up front. And most, most offensive line strength and conditioning programs do, but I think the weight gaining results are something that players have definitely taken note of. And I think the player that probably benefits the most, in my opinion, is Blake Frazier. I'm really curious to kind of see what he looks like in the fall because I think last year he was playing at like 296. And he wasn't bad, but you know, there were definitely moments where, at least personally, I could see where 15, 20 pounds of muscle added to, you know, maybe his lower body base, he's not getting pushed around in the same way. So, you know, he's always been a high ceiling guy, legacy, wearing the number 77, all that, all that stuff. Do kind of wonder, I mean, he wasn't necessarily expected to play as much as he did last season, you know, adding some weight, adding some experience. What kind of impact does that have on this offensive line? Because there's, in my opinion, I think they've got seven starter caliber linemen, and they weren't all healthy this spring. Right, Babyloa was out, and then, you know, I think Link was limited to a decent amount during the spring. So, you know, once they get all seven pack, I'm sure there'll be lots of shuffling and some hard decisions to be made. But one thing I feel like I learned is, I think this is going to be an offensive line. I'd be surprised if they start someone who weighs under 310 pounds this fall. They like it that way. They, you know, they're going to train the mobility and the athleticism. They're trying to keep that. But this is going to be a big offensive line. And I think that, you know, Jake Granera and Blake Frazier are two kind of guys that stand out as, boy, if they can add that weight with the experience that they've already gotten and the development that Jim Harding is known for. This is another position group where I think the arrow's up. I mean, they return a lot of guys. They added a coach that a lot of teams would very quickly hire as their offensive line coach if you were available on the market. And so I think there's reason for optimism on that front in terms of the added weight to go in with everything else that is working for this offensive line right now. Would you learn about the offensive line this spring? Yeah, I think that the ceiling is there, right? I mean, I kind of feel like I would argue that you could make the argument that Jim Harding has been one of the primary drivers of Utah's offensive success, right? Not just Fano and low move. I mean, they've, you're in and you're out, have had like good offensive lines. They're, they're, offenses have usually put up pretty big numbers, even before Jason Beck, you know, so I guess my biggest takeaways, like it feels like Michigan is in really good hands. It's always comical to me. Like, it's like offensive line men and offensive line coaches. Like they all just kind of look like they're all related. Like sure. You know, you kind of understand. It's like, yeah, you know, it's like I'm watching, even watching the draft and like the lion's draft, Blake Miller, who, of course, you know, I remember from high school and everything like that. And I'm watching his interviews and stuff and I'm just like, if, I mean, take away the fact that he's six, five, whatever. It's like, he just, if you told me, what does this guy do? I would say, well, he's played offensive line at some point in his life. Like, you know, and Jim Harding just looks like an offensive line coach, right? He just looks like a guy that coaches these types of dudes. So that's kind of my biggest takeaways. It feels like Michigan is in good hands with Harding. I think bringing him over from Utah was incredibly important for Kyle Wittingham. I mean, goes without saying what I think he's actually the assistant, technically the assistant head coach. Also, you know, if that doesn't illustrate how important. Wittingham believes he is. So I also don't think Wittingham has mentioned him without saying the phrase. The best offense of line coach in the country, which are obviously he's going to believe that. It'd be weird if he didn't. But, but I think like it's almost like one of those things we always make fun of. It's like Kentucky transfer Charles Matthews. Like it's like the instinct of like, and Jim Harding, the best offense of line coach in the country. Right. They're doing this. It's like just a thing that Wittingham has always added, it seems like. Right. Or JB Pickers, Staff and Jamal Mosley are really good friends off the court. Yeah. Yeah. Like when the automatic mentioned Matt Stafford and Clayton Kershaw went to the same high school. So yeah. But no, that's yeah. So I think the point being here is it does kind of illustrate how important he is in the. Level of offensive line coach that Michigan was able to. You're talking about a very talented group that now has another year of experience and then you bring in, like it just feels like as long as they can stay healthy, which I think is the big question that this does have a chance to be one of Michigan's better offensive lines in the last five or six years, right? I mean, obviously. It's just saying a lot. It is. I think you look at the 21-year-old, online and probably the 23-line is like, you know, kind of the standard for Michigan offensive line play. You know, will they go to that get to that level? I don't know if they do then it probably means Michigan wins a lot of games, but can't deny the talent level is at least similar, right? So, I mean, so that's kind of, it does feel like those pieces are coming together and into a situation where the ceiling for this group could be as high as it's been in a while. Yeah. It is funny because the opposite. The offensive was so bad, not the line specifically, but the offensive so bad the last two seasons that there's like an instinct to be like, and this will be the best that they've been since. It's like the answer is just 2023. Yeah. No one always goes. Yeah. It's pretty much. It wasn't actually that long ago, but it feels like it was because of how quickly the offense just seemed to hit a wall in terms of other things. I want to learn about the offensive line. Really curious about Marky Walbridge. I think if, you know, if there was one player on the offensive line that I kind of heard the most chatter about that wasn't an obvious starter, it was Walbridge, you know, freshman, early in early in early six, six, he was this, I mean, he was starting right tackle in a split squad, but you know, he's already emerged as one of the top four offensive tackles. You know, if you guys are as a true freshman, I think it's a big deal out east if I'm not mistaken. And I still think back to like a Zack Zinter where it's like, okay, I forget what his recruiting rating was. I mean, he as soon as he got on campus, Michigan was like, Oh, this guy's going to be a four year starter at Michigan. So might not, I don't know if there'll be room for that this year. I don't, I am not predicting that, but I think there's a few reasons to believe that he could be a name to keep in mind moving forward. Steve, before we wrap up the podcast, anything else about the offense that you learned or are curious about that is worth mentioning in this episode? Oh, well, kind of like, so my thing I want to know about the offensive line is what that starting five will look like when everyone's healthy. I think we've all we've opined about it, been talked about on the board to death. I have a hard time believing that if Andrew Babylola is, is a if he's 100%, I have a hard time believing that they would not play him at left tackle. I think we're, what's interesting, I think we're blank frasiers, like one of the more valuable players on this team is that I think he could legitimately play any of the five spots if asked to and probably play it at a high level. It's always, to me, it's always felt like if everyone's healthy, that it's going to be Babylola, Link, Guarnara, Frasier and Sprague across the board. That's, that would be my projection if provided Babylola is, is able. So that's really the big thing for me is once, once everyone's, like when we get to fall camp and presumably he'll be healthy at that point, once everyone's back in and everyone's 100%. What, what is it actually, how are they actually going to do it? Like, you know, I mean, it's a simple question, but because there are some movable pieces in there, you know, what are they going to determine is the best five. Because again, you're, once you add Babylola to the mix there, you're, you're talking like a five star. Sprague was not far from five star and three four stars. I mean, you're talking like a very high level talent from a talent standpoint group. You know, it was like, how do they kind of fit the pieces together? I think it's going to be interesting for me. So, you know, like I said, my biggest thoughts are just more about, yeah, how's that offensive line going to piece together once everyone's back and, and, and with it, because it's still like the ceiling for Andrew Babylola is incredibly high. Just, just for his benefit, I've been crossing my fingers like I just want to see what this kid looks like when he's 100% and ready to go because I feel like he has a chance to be big time. Yeah, he does. And yeah, if he comes in and I mean, he was five star guy. If he comes in and immediately looks kind of where he was last August, he is going to shake up the starting five of this room. I mean, he was kind of teetering on the edge of that last season. And, and I have to think with all the injuries they ended up sustaining. He absolutely would have had multiple starts under his belt if he'd been healthy last season. So, yeah, I think you're between his, his athletic ceiling, his football IQ from what I've heard about how he's learned and bought in on things. Yeah, I don't know exactly when he returns to health or full strength, but feel like he's someone that, that can make that ascent quickly up the depth chart, you know, once, once he is back. So we'll be keeping our ears on that and everything else throughout the spring and summer. They'll get their full roster. I believe it's June 1 is when everyone reports back for summer workouts and then obviously practices will start either late July or early August and will be. We'll be talking about it here on the Wolverine 24 seven podcast. We want to read about it between now and then be sure to check it out at the Michigan insider.com Michigan 24 seven sports.com. There's, there's stories every day. I mean, there's always a handful of things going on in football, basketball, recruiting, the Olympics, sports, whatever it is. We'll be sure to cover it our whole team over there at the Michigan insider.com. For Steve Lorenz, I'm Zach Shaw. This has been the Wolverine 24 seven podcast. We'll see you next time. Spring always feels like a reset, but if your health routine involves multiple supplements, messy powders and oversized pills, it's not exactly sustainable. That's where Grims makes it easy. It's a daily snack pack of gummies that simplifies your routine covering vitamins, minerals, greens and prebiotics in one easy grab and go step and it actually tastes good. It includes six grams of prebiotic fiber and the ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications. Get up to 52% off with code podcast at grooms.co. That's grunst.co. Show notes: In this episode, Zach Shaw and Steve Lorenz break down what they learned, and what they still want to know about each position group on Michigan's offense following spring practices. They open with a discussion about the Wolverines’ quarterback room. They discuss Tommy Carr’s big spring, what that means for Carr and Michigan and how much stock to put into a strong first impression. They also look at Bryce Underwood’s spring, what Michigan is doing to help him develop and what they learned about him this spring. They continue with a look at the running back room, including Savion Hiter’s strong spring showcase, and what the rest of the room may look like. In the second half of the episode, they look at the Wolverines’ wide receiver room, which is as revamped and improved as any on Michigan’s roster. They discuss Andrew Marsh, JJ Buchanan, Salesi Moa, Jaime Ffrench and the rest of the room so far. They continue with a look at the depth of the tight end room, and close with a look at a bigger, more experienced offensive line, and how things may shake out up front. audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices