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Podcast: Palouse Playbook - A Washington State Cougars Podcast Episode: Washington State Leaves Spring With Swagger | Defense DOMINATES, QB Battle Still OPEN Transcript: Hey, guess what? No cold oven. If you're interested in being great, you better look hard into Washington State. You ought to be great. Go to Washington State, baby. When you think you have something ready to roll, right? He says, I got something he says. And that's what he gives you. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying. Just like the blue head. He said, Hey, let me take this one. We learned. Did we learn the last time? No. It's OK. There was a specific thing to learn. I say, keep it rolling. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's definitely what we're doing here. Well, with the lack of audience retention, we probably lost half of you already. But welcome on into the Blue's Playbook podcast because of the no cold open. But we're here. We got a lot to talk about because this is going to be a fun one. Washington State closed out spring ball this weekend. If you watch the Crimson and Gray game or read about it, one thing became obvious fast. This team might win defense first in 20, 20, 20, 20, and then you'll be able to get it. Six quarterback battles, still unresolved, new recruits are jumping in. Former Cougs are still finding and it felt opportunities. There's plenty to unpack on this episode. Make sure you hit the subscribe button powered by up West Sports talking, Washington State Cougars football. Let's start off at the spring game in our thoughts here main take away. And I think I'm going to throw it at you. First Joel because the defense still runs the show we found out the defense was the headline yet again in the Crimson and Grey game. And you were right on par, by the way, when you asked on last episode what you were looking to see and everything came true for you. I mean, you had the fairy wand and everything. You did a great job on that one. Take me through your thoughts and what you've heard about this spring game and the defense still running the show. Man, well, to start my thoughts, if I was a betting man, I should have put some Harley into play, but fortunately. Yeah, on that good old Crimson and Grey game, I'm sure the great, amazing odds and everything was there. I know a guy. I know a guy. I know a guy. He's a small time. He'll do it. No. Well, yes, you were absolutely right. I mean, just as I was reading through everything, I was like, this is what we've been, this is what we were hoping for. I will say, I'm very grateful that it was competitive. And there's moments I've been looking to feel like, Hey, Coach Kirby Moore, you are our office of guy. It's the first time an interview. I don't know if any of you guys got this feel, but I got the feel of him being like, Oh, good job, defense. Great. I got the thing. I'm tired of talking to my you guys. Yeah, yeah. He was like, he's like, I did it again. Yep. They, uh, yeah. They just kept the defendant. Yeah. I loved it. I loved it. See you a couple months. Hopefully the different story. Yes. Yes. Yes. But hopefully our offense is going to be cooking eventually, right? I'd like that. But it comes down to like, you're doing three different QBs, multiple sets, they're interchanging. Offense doesn't have a leg up here, troll. I know you're a defensive guy. I want to tell you, I'm an offensive guy. I played, might have played defense growing up a little bit, but offensive guy here on this episode right now, like I wanted to want to step up for these QBs that are just trying to run the show a little bit, but guys are interchanging out more than they're, I don't know what to say, like more than anything else. And honestly, Chad, it's happening because of the defense. You know, they, they, as I mentioned in a couple of articles, they broke up into three parts, right? So although it was four quarters, they took, you know, one of the first and second quarter and they made it like a full speed, you know, you could wrap up and take people to the ground and then they transitioned it into the third quarter into like part of the situational with the two, you know, basically two-minute drill, then they finished it off with that red zone. And I will say before they switch to situational, you know, speed, speed time or red zone, you can tell by the reps that were given, you know, a personally, I'm going to say something to some point, I hope you guys are going to ask this question I'll wait for later, but I think I, I personally have a, have a vote on who I think the QB1 is, but before that, I will say this overall, I think what you saw in terms of those results is based on how the defense was functioning. I think it caused fits and although they were tied up before they went to thud version, I think it was because of how many times the defense stepped up in critical situations. I'll leave it there, but yeah, it was fun, Christian. I'm so stoked. It won't take long, but I'll allow us to all zoom in. We found out Joel likes defense, Chad likes offense. We found out last week that Gavin likes applesauce Kyle. We know that you hate Pepsi, but on the other side, we're looking at your love's depth charts. Love segues. Love our Christians. Love's depth charts. We'll get into his thought process on the quarterback battle in just a minute, but I want to continue to talk about this defense real quick because it deserves a lot more credit. Isaiah hung, we heard his name yet again. Jalen Thomas, we're hearing his name almost every practice, every spring game, all of our previous general, every article that I read, his name is on it blast and all over the place. And this will be Jalen. He presented. Yeah, Kyle, what are you taking from this defense? I'm super excited for him. I mean, there's not much you can say that hasn't already been said. I mean, every practice, every post game, while the offense has talked about while the quarterback, you know, conversations brought up. I feel like if you're breaking the interviews into four parts, it's always three parts defense, one part offense. And it, I mean, but it's well deserved. You know, you kind of talk about the spring game or at least what Kirby Moore's done. A lot of times you'll see it's one, you know, number one offense versus number two defense, number one defense, number two offense. And it doesn't seem like that's happening. I feel like Kirby Moore's going, how do I make my offense better? I have to give him the best looks with the best people. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think if the offense starts clicking, it's a position of okay, our offense is going to be pretty damn good. And right now we're kind of in that we're still learning again. It's harder to it takes longer to install offensive schemes and, you know, alignments, plays just overall chatted, alluded to that as well. It's just, you know, that's just kind of where we're at, especially with the new coach, new regime. I will say I'm not the biggest fan of the kind of the scrimmage setup they had this year. I know them past years with Leech. It was actually a game. They split the teams up. I know they did that kind of, but you really didn't get a game feel. I mean, they were, I mean, they had game kind of situations, but you do that. You're also a spring call. You're talking about a time where we had pack 12 and also a time where we had TV cameras everywhere during spring camp, TV cameras everywhere. Like, it was we were on pack 12 network two years in a row for a spring game. We just, it's just never going to be a thing. I feel like in this network, at least not right now. Maybe when AAC contracts up in 2020, maybe when that's some belt contract. I love that you love that narrative. You're going to keep a wound in. I wouldn't get to Coog fans and like, hey, we're right at that doorstep. We're in front of the doorstep. We're actually, we are literally at the doorstep welcoming people in like, hey, like welcome. This is actually like, power four, but we're actually at the dinner table. We're actually already at the dinner table. We just need to perform. That's a nice thing. I'm not even thinking about the media piece of it. I'm thinking about just from a, I'm talking about going to a championship Kyle. That's what I'm talking about. He blocked it. Hey, Joe, one of our, one of our, people we love you has talked about a championship. Chad, are you on that train right now? Never on the naddy right now. We're way too early, but I'm on the, let's talk about moving forward. Let's talk about like what we're going towards. Like that's what I'm talking about. And this, this spring stuff is cool. I didn't get to watch it. I'm in Renton, Washington. They didn't get to televise it. We talked about Leach when they televised it, but also our wide receiver coach recently with quoted, I think this week that our offense is nothing like Leach's offense. It's more of a pro style offense. So we probably won't hear much about Leach. And I hope we, like last year, this was supposed to be more like a pro style offense, right? And we started talking about like, hey, I'd love to see more passing and love to see more. I'd love, like this is what offense was built in Pullman. No, it's built with the guys that are in their room. That's what they're trying to build. So right now, I'm kind of excited the fact that we have a pro style offense and we put so many QBs into Leach. So the fact that we are actually putting together a pro style offense and we have good guys in the room. I'm excited to see that narrative, how it, where it goes over the next few years. Cougar footballs, I mean, like, curve above. We're at the dinner table. We are at the dinner table, man. Speaking of a dinner table, Gavin, have you ever been to a restaurant and then they tell you like, it's Pepsi OK and you're solely your body? Like, have you ever been to a restaurant and then they tell you like, it's Pepsi OK and you're solely your body? Like, have you ever been there? Because I have totally been there. Like, it's Pepsi OK and then you're like, oh my God, no. It's actually not OK. Yeah. That was just a Knowles meme. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I just left. I just left you so upset. That's how that was. But I do that. But, OK. So one more thing. Before we move on to the rest of this, you brought it up. The fact that this wasn't televised, we've seen it in the past. It's televised. Is this going to be some sort of regret? Kind of like how Pepsi's carbonated regret. Are we going to see some sort of regret where we didn't get to see this? Or is it the flipside, Gavin, where we're actually going to look at this and we surprised everybody in the apple cup because we're trying to hide everything right now. And then we just stick it to you, Doug, week one of the season and no one's going to care about the fact that you didn't see the Crimson and Grace. The Lego last. Oh, I see. I. Yes. It was disappointing that there was no way to view this game. We got whatever highlights we can get on there and shout out to anybody who's there also throwing out whatever they could throw out. But we got a good breakdown post game from Kirby from some of the other guys. You'll keep Brown. I believe was also on their talk. And we got a really good insight from the game itself. And we got to see some key things. I think 9 for 16 79 yards with a touchdown 37 rushing yards, the 44 yard touchdown, passed to Ganesh, more of the love it. And also, yeah. I think that our offense going up against how good our defense is. And I'm trying to say that as unbiased as possible. Our defense is I really think that good. I think it's top 25 defense heading out of spring. That we're really early. And I'm saying that. So by the time we get to game one, I think our defense could be even better and it'll be a really good test For for udub. I think the playing udub game one. I cannot go into that matchup sign me up You're going to be yeah, it's going to be a battle tested game right there And then our offense I think is only going to continue to get better I think that that from what we heard from kirby more is what we needed to see There's still going to be a quarterback battle which I think is awesome going into summer and You know into the fall or at least in the augusts whatever you want to call that If you're calling that fall sure whatever the case may be but as we're going into game one We still have a battle. We still have guys that are buying in and that's that's that's awesome to see I'm really excited to see where this off it right now is a chip on the shoulder And and a good positive attitude with the whole team and they're all bought into something that's the that's a dangerous place to be I love it week one is going to be interesting and the biggest question is going to be who plays quarterback Week one the quarterback battle is still open kirby more said afterward that there's no decision yet on quarterback competition I mean that tracks we heard that that's not going to happen We're probably not going to know until you know the week before the the first game of the season We didn't get a really good idea from spring anyways because they weren't full contact There was a lot of wide receivers that were injured trey lecterns and played all during spring But of course we still have to spec you a little bit jolly you kind of tease that you have a thought process But I feel like I wouldn't do it justice if we didn't give kyle the first shot of the depth Chart here My man mr. Death chart I think I think it alludes to what kirby said that you know no one really came out of the spring game taking the taking the reins Um, so I think if you kind of look at where kind of opportunities plays Pinnock sills got the keys to the car Uh, you've got you know between oh and and dubber I really feel like doggers being set up right now to be kind of that wildcat guy Where I think you've got oh and is more of the number two as the number two kind of your everyday QB I think doggers gonna play a ton this year. I I really do. I think you're gonna see him I wouldn't be shocked if you saw him at least five times a game in certain situations and being able to use his kind of his skill set and You know while I think while anything can change between now coming in and then getting into the fall Um, I think the biggest thing for duger was like I think while his stats today look good He took a lot of sacks or or the you know the theoretical sacks. However you want to call it Um, and that was you know, he and he said himself processing was something he's had to work on and so um You know, I feel like again Everyone knows his legs were the by far the the best out of the three Um, I just think we just wanted to see maybe more from the arm and the decision making and then uh, but again No one has actually taken the job You know In totality so right now. I mean it could be any Anybody's game come come like I said it could be a week before the first game But I think I still see it as kind of cadence one. I see oh and is two and then Uh, duger is three, but he's really kind of that you know, he's kind of that He's in his own kind of echelon or kind of his own little subsection because of what he can do and I think what he will be installed to do Uh this season Joel are you on the same page there? What were you what were you speculating earlier about? I was just gonna say The way it's shaped out the way that you think it shapes out Kyle. I I I can far I totally agree I think though that there's there's actually a bit more behind this being since happening Uh, and I'm gonna explain why because it is speculative But I'm gonna explain something that happened in the interview. So what kirby more did was yes He said a you know the scissors will be made will progress until a certain point there was a hesitation I don't know if you guys noticed when when Ashton was being asked He almost slipped and said something and he quickly fixed it and said something else about Owen because they come all you know cap You know, Owen's been a good leader He's speaking up because they've all been told to keep ops covert It's like a let's let's keep it quiet If you guys remember I was saying something it's like a there's a secret thing that happens with us football players where you know Outside world like a is what we're supposed to do and then behind the scenes. So like hey you guys Just make sure like you're starting to see this make sure we we keep mums the word on this If you remember I said the person that gets the most reps whether we came naturally or plan That person is a QB one. How many reps did katting get far more He separate himself in terms of his production, but it was based on how many more reps he was getting and the reason That you know they they might have to tell you know, Owen did this well. What had you the other thing you'll notice is right away When Owen went in he you know made that mistake first throw was it was an interception for what you see in the article But who was in at the end when offense was trying to win? It was cated There's a reason just like how he's slow and again, this is super speculative, but just the way I feel that journalism Is good anymore We're here. I know Joel. Are you in Arizona right now? You forget I am I am I was like But I think it's I scuba you're so far away though, uh, but no, no, that's what I mean I have to feel I get this is you know Playing you know scooby do a little bit right I was like I might be shaggy in this moment, but I will say yeah I do I think that cadence is I think actually more people know that cadence number one It might not be everyone, but I think within offense They know that he's QB one or they expect that he's gonna be QB one quite honestly And I think it's based on what he's done so far. I mean the fact that he threw the large the longest Are through for the longest productive play for all spring season, right with Brandon that 44 yard that made that touchdown You know until he had that interception he's owning it And I think the only reason he had an interception is because he was trying to make it make sure they can win because they were behind Right it was 1412 or whatever it was Uh, I guess defense based on the points that they set up for situation and that was they were in their last drive Who do you put the keys that you know who holds the keys to the car when the day needs to be one that's your QB one That's By the way, and that's it experience also being a huge factor here Which none of us played college football, but here we go here. We got Joel Um, by the way all american Uh all american and charleson southern wants a fun time if I haven't said it at least 15 times Um, yes, but I mean that's it's really good insight to get some stuff like that. I love that So what do we learn not spring ball has come to a close? Obviously at that the quarterback situation and to be completely honest I think we would be more surprised Heading into at least in my mind after seeing this and I do think it's still a competition Don't get me wrong But I think I'd be more surprised if one of the other two were named starting quarterback other than caden rather if it is the other way around As we sit right now just especially based on how you said a joke because I think you explained it perfectly But what else have we learned this spring? Skill talent exists even with all these injuries maxial woods has momentum at running back and there's multiple other running backs Of course in there that running back weight committee is going to be exciting Tank Hawkins has speed upside returning receiver talent is going to be amazing when it rejoins The culture the culture feels super strong. That is something I definitely think we can take away And dare I say even though it's only been 15 spring practice with a brand new head coach I think there's an identity that is forming already Impulment am I wrong? Anyone feel free to step up here well one thing I have to tell you is that um, I think it was after We got our ass kicked first north texas 54 18 maybe a little worse than that, but Uh, we were talking about identity week five And I feel like our identity is already like coming together here in spring ball So that's nice to see. That's what you want to see. From my times, I was on campus for two years with Paul Wolf, and I was on campus for two years with Mike Leach. Very different camps. And the camps that I thought that were most beneficial were the ones that were moving quick. They were trying to do more with less. They were just not trying to do overdo things. They had their one hour time or two hours block practice. These are the things they had individual reps that they were doing within practice. And you saw guys getting better. And you're hearing that right now, hearing camp. That's what you want, right? All the things that you're hearing, all things that I heard when I was in camp on the practice field. Like, guys getting better. Guys going to be impact the next season. Like, I'm hearing it right now. So that's the nice thing. Defensively, it's strong. Like, I'd be willing to bet that our defense is going to be a top two defense in the pack 12 next year. No doubt. No doubt. Offensively. Where I get nervous, my man, and ladies out there. Like, I get nervous about our, I mean, like, obviously our QB situation. Like, we've, panic is starting to be a little bit more and more reps. Starting to get like, get in that offense and starting to get more and more reps. And I'd like that. But like, what, what does it look like going into camp this next year? That's what I'm looking forward to going. It's like a submarine, right? Like, we finished the spring camp and like, I just remember like leaving going back home, coming back and seeing guys like transform overnight. It's like going down like a submarine. These guys are me. Nobody's going to know what's going on, right? I'm sure WSU, like, I'm going to go back to the gym. Like, Kent Wells is going to make sure we got a camera on everything. This is going to be a conference of entertainment. I'm excited for it. But these guys are going to go down like a submarine. Like, I, like, I hope the guys are listening to this right now. Like, I hope you guys are going to be like, just concentrating this summer and you're just diving into your craft. Like, that's what it's going to be all about. But boys, I feel like I've talked too long. I feel like I love the Cougar so much. And I think I'm going to leave it at that. I like to hear that as well. We have one question that was answered, Christian, that you brought up. I just wanted to throw it out there, brother. You brought up, you were like, and I didn't think about it, you know, because I'm such a newbie. You brought up like, hey, there's a question about, you know, what special teens looks like, you know, with what Trent Bres crew went through last year, right? I think that question was answered. I know, imagine they probably didn't do kick off and kick off return or get that. But at least from a special team from a P A T perspective. Right from field goals, showers handle business. I don't know if I've ever done this before, but I'm going to give a shout out to a kicker, right? Jack Stevens, brother, you handled business. I know, arenas, boom, that leg showed off that 50 yarder, but consistent. I mean, Stevens, you know, he's he's number one guy. Last year, he proved it again in the spring moment. So, you know, kudos to him. And it looks like so far, we're doing a little things right when it comes to special teams. So hopefully that fun. So hopefully that question is answered, which is so important because I do truly think it's that what I said last week, I'm going to shout it again at least one game in the conference this season will be decided because of a special team's wonder. Let's not make it the Cougs. Let's not make it the Cougs that happens on that case. So love that for sure. Speaking of the Cougs reinforcements coming in for 2026 and the first commit for 2027. Gabe Miller is going to come in coming in for 2026. Let's go. Your offensive lineman coming in from Butte, Butte College, red-shirted last year. So we'll have all four years of eligibility and adding more interior offensive linemen stacking young line talent. Talked about how much he loved the staff and the facilities right off the bat. He said that he was he was blown away when he when he got to the Crimson and Great Game and he just knew that this made a lot of sense and signed up right away. And then for 2027, early 2027 linebacker commit, Josiah Ran hybrid frame, positional flexibility. Sounds like exactly what Washington State wants on defense really gave a lot of love to Trent Bray for one of the reasons why he committed so early. So look at that Washington State already added to the next for 2027. Welcome to the Cougs, young men. We're so excited to have you guys. Best decision you've ever made. Spring games matter, but momentum after spring games matter more. And not only are you seeing that as they're going to take off there from spring break and head into summer, but now you're seeing them focus on the future as well. This is where the coaching staff and recruiting staff can absolutely cook. This won't be the, random will be the only one in 2027 that commits the Cougs before they come back to fall camp. Watch this staff go to work now. This is where it gets fun. Watch them go to work. Well, I'll be interested too. Like I know we've talked about this like correct me if I'm wrong. And we probably need to look at the numbers a little bit, but like guys can still be added to the roster. Correct. Because you can have up to I think it's like 110, 105, 105 total roster guys on scholarship. Last year we have about between 82 to 85, I think somewhere in that range. So it'll be curious to see like once we get into summer camp, like the guys get announced, it's probably gonna be like a lot of high school guys. We have three QBs on a roster. That's not enough. We talked about it today boys. Do you think those guys arms are hanging in that locker room? Three QBs growing a rock? Like, or is it the equipment guys that are throwing the ball? Like I'm an ex equipment guy. Like if my arm, my arms hurt and thinking about the amount of the amount of throw, the amount of just like. Yeah, the roster's definitely thrown definitely planning to expand. We saw Lance McGee also there. Shout out to Lance McGee being there for the game and I'm saying from a QB perspective, like, yeah, I just made a disaster. Three like there's an entry right and quarterbacks. Yeah, I would have out imagine maybe one or two more comes in from the high school ranks minimum. There is another quarterback, Jake. Terry, you got a truck. Yeah. No, there's four love that. No, no, no, no, the depth chart. Love that. Have a depth chart question. You know where to go to. I love that. Kyle Googles. No, how about those cubes getting a chance for the pros? Tucker large, getting an opportunity with the Philadelphia Eagles. Humphrey 49ers opportunities, getting some rookie minicabs or UDFA signings. I'm pretty good. Neither of those teams. Neither of these players got drafted. UDFAs both have an opportunity to make the clubs make the chance. What do you think Kyle? I believe Wazoo's long snapper also got an invite. Oh, boom. I didn't see that. Hey, man. You know, I have 15 minutes ago. Just bigger. Yeah, I only saw it too, but I believe it. I mean, UDFA trackers are so hard to keep the track of. Let's go. Yeah, he's excited. So the one when he's drinking a Pepsi. And I believe. Yeah, I think he so I believe we had a long snapper, at least get an invite to a rookie camp and then was it Webster that got also got an invite with the Seahawks. Oh, yes. So you had a couple signings and then you get an up couple opportunities. What I think is fantastic. I think you're going to hear more. You know, I'm shocked. I have a reader reader, right? Should have been. I'm a shot right in here. His name. I thought he was an absolute bruiser last year. So I think I think we'll see some names. I think what France was at France. Obviously, I think you have to get an injury. Go to angels to see us. Yeah, so we need to get a guy. So I think we'll hear some more here in the next few weeks. But who knows? Maybe we hear some of these guys potentially CFL. But it'll be this the last you hear of this last of the 2025 team getting opportunities to play professional. So I look forward to hear more about it. Angel Johnson got a Titans rookie camp invite. Okay. Okay. Oh, yeah. They're going to keep filtering in boys. We got to look back. Never look back. Okay. Yeah, multiple. They're getting opportunities, which is great. But yeah, good. Good for Angel Johnson as well. That's awesome. All right. Before we get on out of here, any final thoughts to close out spring ball? We have some really fun stuff coming up on the docket over the next couple of weeks here at the blues playbooks. Don't go away. Anytime soon, if you haven't already hit that subscribe button because it's going to be wild over here. We are not going anywhere. In fact, we're probably actually going to turn the volume up maybe to 11 and a half. All the way up until kickoff in Husky Stadium. So a lot of stuff coming down the dock of any final thoughts. We forgot your Gavin. One final thought. Want to give him his flowers because he made a great play in the spring game. And he's a guy that I've been high on since we got him. Malekai Rice out of McAllister, Oklahoma, gets the game ceiling interception. And yeah, he's the defensive lineman. So when you see a defensive lineman make those. You're going to love this guy, man. This guy's an absolute brawler. I think he's going to, as Richard Sophor, he's going to get introduced a little bit more this season. By this season, the next season, I think he's going to be a name that you're going to remember. Absolutely. A lot of the deal. Absolutely. Well, I got to take it after Gavin. Mostly I just got to take it If you just excited about Cooper football, if you're just loving what we're talking about, you're just loving what you're seeing and you're not giving, you're like, what are you talking about? What do you mean by giving? I give a lot. Do you give to the Coog Collective? Do you do that? Or maybe, I don't know, trying to just go, maybe show up to a game? I don't know. Do something. All I have to say is that Coog's show up for Coog's, let's do it, go Coog's. What's the name of that club by the way? Coog Collective? Yeah, what's the name of that thing? 1890 club. Boom. Let's go. I swear. With the alley-oop. Sorry. Hey Kyle, why the math book looks so sad? Had to add? I don't know. Because I had too many problems. That's usually the answer. That's because he had a Pepsi in his hand. Thanks for growing the Pluse Playbook. We'll see you back here next time. Show notes: Washington State football wrapped up spring ball, and the Cougs leave camp with real momentum. In this episode of Palouse Playbook, we break down the Crimson and Gray Game, why the defense continues to set the tone, and what Kirby Moore’s latest comments tell us about the still-open quarterback battle between Caden Pinnick, Julian Dugger, and Owen Eshelman. We also dive into: Why WSU’s defense may be ahead of schedule Spring risers like Isaiah Hung and Malachi Wrice New commitments Gabe Miller and Josiah Rand Former Cougs getting NFL rookie minicamp and UDFA opportunities Why Washington State may already have a team identity entering 2026 If you’re a Washington State Cougars fan, this is a must-watch offseason update. Subscribe for more Washington State football coverage, recruiting news, Pac-12 talk, and Cougs analysis. #WashingtonState #WSUFootball #GoCougs #Pac12 #CollegeFootball